Linear RPG Exploration
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started by: hartnellhartnell
on: 1257203265|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover
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Linear RPG Exploration
hartnellhartnell 1257203265|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover

ChibiLeenChibiLeen said : I was also thinking about ways of removing linearity in terms of exploration possibilities. I can't say I enjoy having to visit towns and dungeons in sequence, without having the freedom to roam how I want.

I find that hard to implement. There's a natural limit to the ability of a character to explore in an RPG game based on his level and the difficulty of the monsters in various areas.

How do you plan to get around this?

— hartnell

unfold Linear RPG Exploration by hartnellhartnell, 1257203265|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover
Re: Linear RPG Exploration
ChibiLeenChibiLeen 1257210916|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover

I was thinking about time flow. The levels of the monsters wouldn't be influenced by the progression in the plot, but by the time that has passed since the beginning of the story.

If we imagine, for example, a calendar system that would keep track of in-game days (or any other in-game time unit), it should be possible. All characters and foes start at a basic level, and grow stronger as time passes. If the player explores dungeon A before dungeon B, monsters in dungeon B will be stronger than those in dungeon A. If, on the contrary, the player chooses dungeon B first, then monsters in dungeon A will be stronger than those in dungeon B. They will grow in strength as time passes. We could even take advantage of the fact that in most RPGs, monsters are recycled as stronger (and differently colored) versions of themselves later in the game: the monsters could evolve at certain levels, and gain new abilities that would give a fairly balanced challenge to the party. Also, some monsters - like optional bosses - could have a fixed level.

The main difficulty that I see here consists in the elaboration of puzzles. If the game is puzzle-heavy, especially in the "dungeon" areas, the puzzles need to be solvable at any point of the game. This means that puzzles based on tools - like in Lufia or Wild Arms - are rather out of the question, unless all the tools are available from the start. Of course, this aspect could instead be implemented as optional content: no tool that isn't available from the start is necessary to finish the main adventure, but treasures and such can be discovered only with the appropriate stuff on hand (I recently finished Wild Arms 5, the game is LITTERED with "go back" dungeons ^^; ).

But the question of difficulty remains: how to increase the difficulty of the puzzles as the player progresses in the game? I was thinking that maybe a general difficulty setting could work (the same difficulty for all the puzzles, the setting being chosen at the beginning of the game), but that would be quite complex to implement.

This still needs a lot of thought. I'm sure we can come up with lots of other flaws in that idea. :)

unfold Re: Linear RPG Exploration by ChibiLeenChibiLeen, 1257210916|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover
Re: Linear RPG Exploration
hartnellhartnell 1257223356|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover

@chibi: what is a "go back" dungeon?

— hartnell

unfold Re: Linear RPG Exploration by hartnellhartnell, 1257223356|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover
Re: Linear RPG Exploration
ChibiLeenChibiLeen 1257287623|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover

That's a term I picked up in a faq. :) It designates dungeons with areas you can't explore the first time you go through the dungeon, because you don't have the necessary tool/ability to access those areas. Thus, you need to go back to those dungeons once you do get the needed tool/ability.

As I mentioned earlier, Wild ARMs 5 is a good example: almost every single dungeon in the game has chests or whole areas that aren't accessible the first time round.

unfold Re: Linear RPG Exploration by ChibiLeenChibiLeen, 1257287623|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover
Re: Linear RPG Exploration
hartnellhartnell 1257212130|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover

This is brilliant.

I think that the difficulty of the puzzles isn't an issue. Either the player can solve them, or they can't and therefore progression is based on the player's puzzle-solving ability. Cool.

I also think that there needs to be some linear progression, otherwise the player (usually with the use of on an online FAQ) could go to the Final Puzzle and beat the game absurdly quickly.

To encourage exploration and possibly prevent this, the world map could be divided into modular sections and shuffled. This way, the player will have have no idea of where the final puzzle is, even if he has a FAQ. He has to explore to find it. :)

— hartnell

unfold Re: Linear RPG Exploration by hartnellhartnell, 1257212130|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover
Re: Linear RPG Exploration
mr glassesmr glasses 1257218908|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover

So…a little bit of pseudo proceedural generation?

unfold Re: Linear RPG Exploration by mr glassesmr glasses, 1257218908|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover
Re: Linear RPG Exploration
hartnellhartnell 1257223224|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover

@glasses: i don't understand the term pseudo procedural generation. What is it?

— hartnell

last edited on 1257223255|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover by hartnell + show more
unfold Re: Linear RPG Exploration by hartnellhartnell, 1257223224|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover
Re: Linear RPG Exploration
mr glassesmr glasses 1257302145|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover

Proceedural generation is a method that uses seeds to creat infinate worlds. You probably know that computer's "random" numbers are not truely random, if you put the same seed in, you get the same result. This can be used to create entire worlds that are infinite and no place is exactly the same. Here is a great article and example of proceedural generation. http://www.infinity-universe.com/Infinity/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=13&Itemid=34 and http://www.infinity-universe.com/Infinity/index.php?option=com_easyfaq&task=cat&catid=15&Itemid=28#faq20 and I can't find the article that discusses it in detail!!! I'll get back to you when I do.

Pseudo P.G.(yeah I was lazy and used an abreviation) in the case that I used it would be using and extreamly simplified form of it. Instead of actually generating little details, you have large sections of space and arrangements of objects that can be stuck together and those big section's arrangements will depends upon proceedural generation.

unfold Re: Linear RPG Exploration by mr glassesmr glasses, 1257302145|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover
Re: Linear RPG Exploration
ChibiLeenChibiLeen 1257290469|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover

That's a very good idea, I hadn't thought of that! My pet project doesn't rely on a single worldmap, so it wasn't really an issue, but I'll definitely write your solution down for further use. :)

One of the devices I was thinking of to avoid the problem you mention is time linearity: some key events will take place at certain points in time (again, with a calendar system in mind) - that may or may not be fixed - and the endgame sequence will only be available after a particular event takes place. There would be a default scenario - default key events that will take place if the player does nothing to prevent or change them - and alternative routes that can be taken by the player. But in any case, certain key events will need to happen before the endgame can start, to ensure that the minimal completion time isn't too short. I'm not talking about story development, but more of events, like a solar eclipse, an earthquake, a volcano eruption, a ceremony/festival/ritual, and such. Events that will take place whether the party is at the heart of them, or on the contrary, completely unaware of what is going on.

unfold Re: Linear RPG Exploration by ChibiLeenChibiLeen, 1257290469|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover
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